Sunday, July 27, 2008

Shooting at Knoxville Church

I went to this church in high school, when I was a little hippie chick trying to find myself. I left it for reasons obvious to conservatives and traditionalist Christians. I know a lot of people from this church even today. The mother of my high school sweetheart, two college friends, and a whole bunch of homeschooling families.

I was just writing a post about the right to carry.

I think the sicko entered this church during a children's play. 7 were wounded. No children were reported injured.

Pray for them.

Update. There was a hero. He was a foster dad.

15 comments:

Brian said...

The news has said that the gunman was captured. Does anyone have a name yet?

Some reports have said that several members had to physically restrain the guy.

That's pretty much the options the state has given us to deal with these kinds of situations. You can:
a) run for your life and let everyone else fend for themselves or,
b) rush the attacker and hope you aren't killed next.

Self-defense is the most paramount human right.

Nigel said...

Perhaps this is a little inappropriate so soon after this happened...but here goes:

Just thinking that if this had been a mosque, that instead of a man stepping in front of the gunman to protect women and children, that one of those poor kids would have been used as a shield, and then paraded around as a martyr.

Just sayin'.

Michele said...

He was wearing "red, white and blue" and shouting "hateful things."

I think I'm getting nauseous.

Michele said...

Brian,

You can carry a firearm to church in Tennessee if you have a carry permit. Unfortunately, the Unitarian Church promotes gun-control.

But really, who thinks about having a shootout at church during a kid's production.

They had just put out a sign this week about welcoming gays. The UU church performs gay marriage ceremonies. There's some speculation about that being a motive for this nut.

Preston said...

Certain parties were working the hate crime angle early on. What do you expect?

Justin said...

So according to Preston, they had it coming, and according to Nigel, if a mosque had been shot up, they would have sacrificed the kids.

Nice. Do you ever wonder why conservatives have a reputation as bigots?

Kelsey said...

Nigel, Couldn't you have waited a few days to make a political point?

You should be ashamed of yourself. Innocent people have died because of ignorance and fear. Have some respect.

Tate said...

"Just thinking that if this had been a mosque, that instead of a man stepping in front of the gunman to protect women and children, that one of those poor kids would have been used as a shield, and then paraded around as a martyr."

Just thinking that if this had been a mosque, you wouldn't mind so much.

Or is that too soon?

Justin said...

Nigel said: "Just sayin'."

On Feb. 24, 1994, a Jewish extremist named Baruch Goldstein opened fire in the Cave of the Patriarchs mosque in Hebron. He killed 24 and wounded 150. No one ever reported that children were used as shields to be later lauded as martyrs.

So, in addition to using a tragedy to make an unrelated insult to a group not even remotely involved in the Knoxville shooting, Nigel's speculation is without any factual merit.

Justin said...

BTW, after reading Preston's comments on his blog about this, I withdraw my snark suggesting that he thought they "had it coming." Apologies, Preston.

vsync said...

Perhaps this is a little inappropriate so soon after this happened

Yes.

...but here goes:

...sigh.

Nigel said...

Oh hey Justin...glad you are still here...

Uh...Preston made no such assertation...nowhere does he say or allude that anyone "had it coming".

As far as my comment, Muslims DO sacrifice their children. You don't see many 35-year old suicide bombers do you? And then click on the picture of the Said girls to your right.

When Hezbollah lobbed bombs into Israel from across the border in Lebanon, where did they hide? Behind schools and hospitals where there were women and children...and when women and children were killed, what did they do? Parade them through the streets as martyrs.

Google, "Green Helmet Guy"...

And they Google "Muhammad Al Durah and Pallywood" to see how a Muslim shields his kid.

Is that ALL Muslims? Of course not.

Was my comment in fact "inappropriate" when I made it. Yeah...and Kelsey correctly called me on it. I don't know who has the official clock on "too soon", but it certainly isn't liberals (see Tony Snow).

And Kelsey, I wasn't trying to "politicize" anything...I was thinking that the man who stepped in front of the gunman was a hero...and I should have left it at that.

Justin said...

Uh...Preston made no such assertation...nowhere does he say or allude that anyone "had it coming".

Yup. See my comment above, posted ten minutes before yours.

Muslims DO sacrifice their children.

You're trying to pull a rhetorical bait-and-switch here. You asserted that a Muslim in the position of the Knoxville victims would use a Muslim child as a human shield in order to martyr the child. I observed that, in a previous incident that parallels the Knoxville shooting quite well (where a disturbed individual attacks a religious gathering, citing ideological reasons that are, at best, a perversion of what others generally believe), no such thing happened.

You can bring up honor killings and homicide bombers, but those are different things than what you asserted would happen, and don't support your speculation.

Google "Muhammad Al Durah and Pallywood" to see how a Muslim shields his kid.

Indeed. He was shielding his child when they were killed, not the other way around.

I was thinking that the man who stepped in front of the gunman was a hero

Agreed.

Nigel said...

Indeed. He was shielding his child when they were killed, not the other way around.

Uh...no. He was not shielding his child. Go to Second Draft and watch the video. The shots were coming from the other direction. The guy put his child IN the line of fire.

And then they paraded him around.

You certainly make a lot of assertions from one little ill-timed comment, don't you? I didn't assert 4/5ths of what you said I did...

You can keep arguing if you want, but I am done.

Justin said...

Go to Second Draft and watch the video. The shots were coming from the other direction.

They were caught in a crossfire between Palestinian and Israeli forces. In the still images, the father is pushing his son behind him and looking towards the Israeli position. Whether or not he was doing a good job of shielding his son, he was clearly not using him as a human shield, unless you think that he should have been shielding the boy from the Palestinians. I would think a Gaza resident would be more afraid of the Israelis than the Palestinians.

I'm aware of the dispute surrounding Durah's death, but that dispute is about who's bullets killed the boy, and France 2's presentation of the incident. Given the nature of the cover he had, it looks like Palestinian bullets killed the child and wounded the father. Nonetheless, it's pretty obvious that the father was shielding the son from the Israelis, which makes sense from the father's perspective. The video footage of the shooting isn't clear, which accounts for the dispute.

You can keep arguing if you want, but I am done.

Okay then.